Why rigid mtb

Even the up wasn't as smooth. Down was decidedly sketchy. All off line and nasty. Wrong tool for the job on most local stuff.

Holding back is frustrating. Bunny hopping up kerbs on the way back was good though. BenPea : I don't think would feel any different from aside from the geo change, which may or may not be good. Ultimately you still have your back wheel shaking the crap out of your hands and making the bike jump around.

Tubes vs. Tubeless maybe? Too many variables to make a fair comparison, but I literally cannot pinpoint an advantage other than for XC and even then it's nice to sit your booty on some well designed suspension as you spin. BenPea : the 69HA is your problem. BenPea : nah I run tubeless 29" 2. It definitely helps but hardtails at speed will always lack traction - which can be really fun!

But there's no substitute for suspension if traction at speed is what you want. I'm glad I have one, but I'm also glad it's not my only bike Most of the trails in my part of East Tennessee are barely rough at best, save for the DH runs which are proper steep and rocky. The main takeaway here is that contrary to the article, there are definitely still places a rigid can outrun anything else! WAKIdesigns : I agree lets go east coast. Next thing to do is grow a beard and SS, then I will have reached mtb nirvana.

Rucker10 Oct 21, at BenPea Oct 21, at Rucker10 : money-back guarantee? BenPea Nov 14, at I've an old Marz 55 on the way. WAKIdesigns Nov 14, at BenPea : I hope it's a or newer model, and the RC Lots of travel - No compression damping. Holy diver! It's even got a big old dent in one of the stanchions. The guy says it works, but then again Trump said he invented the word "fake", so talk is often cheap.

BenPea : The attached is an interesting read regarding hardtails My take Yes, that is correct, I have been on the same f'ing bike since It has gotten a few changes discs, shorter stem, wider bars, 2. I've ridden it on trails in every state that I runs through, plus most of I and Highway 1. I haven't hit my nuts since I don't know when and the last time anyone waited for me to clear a section was when my home-brew tubeless failed and I rode home on the rim.

In that time I've visited resorts and rented downhill bikes and shredded them to the point I scared myself. I've also grabbed a few FS bikes when I was traveling and didn't want to bring my own bike. Point is, I like suspension, I really do, but every time I consider buying a new-fangled ride I look at the miles I've put on my 14 year old ride and I think about how soon my carbon wonder-machine will be obsolete and the amount of maintenance it will require to keep it going.

No thanks. I'll keep my low-carbon foot print. I'll put my money into road trips with friends, bakeries and breweries in small towns, and rental bikes at big mountains. I stopped caring about new parts and gear a decade ago. I spend my money at my LBS for the few repairs I need and I make sure to leave a six-pack for the mechanic because when I was a mechanic that was the coolest gift in the world. I get it vernonfelton , you get to ride sweet bikes and you can write click-bait, but nothing about this article makes any sense to me.

I'm not abstaining from suspension because of some masochistic need to prove myself, I'm staying away because I found something better to spend my money on. It is a shame more don't share your views.

Smevan Oct 19, at It's horses for courses, basically, isn't it? I could replace my mm hardtail with an EWS-capable bike and all I'd actually end up doing is steamrolling all my local trails, to the point where any tech-y and fun stuff breezes under my wheels without a squeak and I get home 30 mins earlier, having had less fun.

You probably can't expect to take a rigid bike to your local enduro and still enjoy it, but even tame trails can become a lot more exciting, when you don't have that suspension safety net. I've done a lot of what is essentially CX riding recently and it's amazing what the combo of speed, a high saddle and hard-to-reach brakes does for injecting some exhilaration into the bike tracks. My fully rigid 29er gets more miles on it than the other ride because it's just more fun to ride, not because I like having my testicles abused and for the record, if that's happening to you, you're doing it wrong.

A mm FS bike in any wheel size, is complete overkill for the majority of the world's trails. The upper limit of comfort, endurance, capability and fun on the rigid SS is the entry level tech trail required for a mm FS bike, and there are very few trails that can't be ridden on a rigid 29er.

Also applying bike handling skills you learn from a rigid SS with flat pedals to a mm FS with clips will improve your riding 10 fold versus plodding along on tame trails with an enduro bike. Once your skills get better you can move up to a HT and then again to FR which is the hardest to ride. Sorry to hear the article rubbed you the wrong way. I think it's cool that people want to ride FR still. But I think most people will take the article for what it is - an entertaining read. I appreciate having something to read in the morning that doesn't involve hate crimes, misogyny or corrupt politics.

Thanks vernonfelton for putting on a smile on my jaded face. So yes if the local trails are littered with rocks, roots, bombholes and whatnot then that implies a decent amount of travel front and rear.

But if the trails are smoother then I'd say that also calls for a more direct bike. More travel may allow you go faster there but a crash at a higher speed is still a crash at a higher speed, no matter how much travel the bike had just before you came off. As a rider gains experience and skill he or she will go faster but will also more gradually experience the little things that go with that.

Not just crashing, also losing and regaining grip, regaining control after a bit of a wrong landing. And I believe this approach doesn't take away any bit of the fun. What the speedometer for whoever has one of these mounted tells is only one thing.

It is that "on-the-edge" feeling that makes you grin. I'm riding a mountain unicycle MUni too. Investment is low, wear is low, crash damage is low, no injuries, speed is comparable to just trail running. But anyone who has tried it has been grinning from ear to ear when attempting to ride 1m when supported. Doesn't make for great GoPro footage but it is all giggles what counts.

Are we really having more fun than we used to years ago? Probably not. Maybe there are just too many bike companies out there trying to get their share of a limited pot of money that we spend each year. Therefore they all have to out do themselves to make the latest and greatest bike every year.

This means small changes each year along with some of the big changes made over the last few years. Maybe if we stop buying the weak will fall by the wayside and the strong will survive. That's my 2 pence worth anyway. The bike needs to be suitable to the trail. That's why winter riding is fun as its always on the edge and you feel like a muppet riding trails you normally destroy in summer.

MUni sounds fun. Even retail price for a top level complete MUni is comparable to that of a mid level suspension fork. Because of circus acts etc people have developed the perception that riding a unicycle is difficult.

If walking on two legs or riding on two wheels were exclusive circus material, people would have gotten that same perception. It is fun to be at the same level as a kid learning to walk or ride a bike. You recognize the same sensation in their eyes. If you practice, you'll learn. And it is fun every step of the way. Mine is from Kris Holm. One of the founders of the sport. He's kind of a mix of Gary Fisher for pioneering and setting up a brand , Hans Rey for going pretty big, extreme and epic and Ryan Leech for his enthusiasm and skill.

Actually, he and Ryan happen to be good friends and ride trials together. His current challenge though is convince people that it isn't as difficult or extreme as what he's doing. One of the biggest issues with young adults nowadays is that they feel they should look perfect at whatever they do. Maybe because that's what they see on social media and because someone could record their attempts and publish that to make fun of.

It is limiting in a way, it is the end of progression, of learning anything at all. If toddlers would have had such a mindset, they'd be crawling for the rest of their lives. But yeah, back to bikes. Modern full suspension bikes for beginners may compensate for an understandable lack of skill and experience.

It makes you ride better, but it doesn't make you a better rider. To learn, you need sufficient feedback from the trail. If that feedback is too harsh or wild, you may want to filter that through stable geometry and abundant suspension. But if the feedback is subtle, you'll need less filter to still be aware of what your tires are doing. Then again as I mentioned elsewhere in this topic, full suspension bikes have their quirks too and one needs to learn to deal with that too.

As I learned to ride on a hardtail with suspension forks with a powerful front brake and a poor rear brake, I'm used to pinning the front and letting the rear fly about. And that style doesn't play nicely on a full susser. I haven't progressed to that level yet. BenPea : It was funny. I was browsing the Surly website once and they had their Conundrum MUni frame.

Seemed like a great solution to get my kicks without the regular body and bike damage. Not as a replacement for the bike, but just something else where risk is lower. It turned out they only had a suitable frame, hub and rim they were the odd one back then who did fat-bikes so it was much cheaper to just get a Kris Holm complete.

But yeah, maybe it is not progression perse but more being fed up with repairs and injuries but not willing to give up the thrills. I now also have a 25m Gibbon Slackline. Again, no risk, just thrills and giggles. I'm waiting for the article where someone says it is better to walk next to the slackline because it is safer, faster hence more fun.

BenPea : Oh yeah, I'd encourage anyone who's willing to give it a go but I'm definitely not saying it is something everyone should be doing. It work for me and I like it but I absolutely understand it is not for everyone. TheFunkyMonkey Oct 19, at Since Vernon missed it and the majority of readers scroll right to Pinkbike's Take: "Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just CanBLine Oct 19, at Agreed, great article. I had the same thoughts as Vernon when reading the original article, it was phenomenally self-righteous.

I ride a rigid singlespeed, it's a bunch of fun. In a perverse way. Reminds me of my first 'real' bike. I ride my Slash a lot more often and have a heap of pure fun. Rasterman Oct 19, at Totally disagree. I've owned both for years and switch back and forth all the time. Riding a hard tail isn't just harder, sometimes it's more fun, it's quite a rush and achievement doing lines you and your friends pucker on with a FS. It widens your riding experience and teaches you new skills.

I feel sorry for those who never ride one or shame them without trying one. Rasterman : I think it depends a lot on your trails, but I agree. There are some places where you just can't push a big bike hard enough to make it fun, but a HT or cross bike will spice things up a bit.

Riding isn't that fun if it isn't at least a little bit challenging. When I lived near relatively flat, relatively smooth trails I'd take my cross bike out all the time just to keep things interesting and try to hang with other riders.

Rasterman : hardtail is not rigid. Vernon always writes good stuff. But sometimes he does occasionally succumb to the tendency to wrap shit up in soundbites that generate kudos over insight. And my personal take is that this: "Making shit harder than it needs to be isn't awesome, it's just Sorry Vernon, that just doesn't wash. Sometimes making shit harder than it needs to be is essential to the learning process.

In fact, not even sometimes. Ask anyone who opts to build up their bike s from component parts rather than buy "off the shelf" Or anyone competing in the single-handed round the world yacht race Or if you want unequivocal truth, ask anyone who decided to have kids rather than not If stuff wasn't hard, we'd still be in bed, bored.

Give someone a challenge though, and watch them rise to it. Rasterman Oct 20, at Kramz Oct 21, at Life sucking dick does not equal having kids for me, it equals not having kids.

Kramz : You are entitled to your opinion, as every one does things different ways, but if you don't mind, I'd appreciate an apology or retraction for insinuating that my daughter is "shitty"; she is far from that, and if you don't mind me saying, you are assuming a hell of a lot about someone's life there. PB should be better than that, and we the users create the environment, so if you'd retract that, it would be a nice gesture. Your daughter is obviously a trooper, I'll say that, and probably smart; I'm just miserable so I don't want kids.

I'm pretty sure you wrote this as intentional click bait. But nonetheless - rigid bikes definitely have their place in the world. On trails that are pretty smooth, why would you need full suspension? For the record, I ride a Process most of the time, but I just bought a Kona Unit and it is also a hell of a lot of fun in the right circumstances.

NRogers27 Oct 19, at NRogers27 : Fun in in the eye of the beholder. I will add that I have a dropper on the Unit. Try a fully rigid bike with a dropper - it makes a huge difference. Because most bikes of Process kind feel a lot like hardtails. Hence unless I have a bike parked in the garage as my first bike, a trail fully makes little sense to me.

Def Clickbait article. You can't tell other people how to have fun. I ride bmx alot, and although its rigid its a hell of a lot of fun. I ride trials. Also rigid. Also fun. What makes riding fun for me personally, is seeing what is possible. I like trying challenging things. Rigid MTB is just another fun way to make the trails fresh and challenge yourself.

I've ridden Fixed Gear rigid mtb also. It's all good. Except Ebike. Ha, yes! Tell DJ who ride forks that are nearly rigid that they aren't having any fun.

Works like a charm for how I like to ride with a mm Pike taking the hits and the rear suspension being in the sweet spot between taking the edge off and keeping things lively and responsive and giving me something to push on in the turns. If I were into hucking more than carving, I'd probably go to a bigger bike - and may do so next time around haven't ridden the new breed of long travel 29ers yet.

I appreciate it greatly but in relatively traily build. As soon as I would Minions and longer fork on it the little amount of rear travel would run out of its depth.

Now Spark 29 coming in with similar geo, I fear the genre may be doomed. BikeKayakSki : That's what I tell my wife. This is a very particular circumstance, and while yes--less is sometimes to be appreciated, this is not the case.

Cross bikes are fun to rip on great trails, and they don't even have to be smooth! BMX is freaking great! Trials biking is a challenge! Rigid bikes on normal trails--even gravel paths--are still fun, but in the same circumstances a bike with suspension allows for a greater variety of choice, and that's more fun. Great article. One caveat; in the absence of good trails, a rigid gravel bike is plenty fun Thats the new rule.

Swearing off suspension completely? Yeah, I agree it's just stupid not to acknowledge it's benefits, especially with how advanced bikes are getting. BUT I still feel riding rigid has it's place. I live in Florida so the extent of our "mountain" biking isn't nearly to the standard of most of you other guys, but we still have plenty of badass manmade XC parks.

Techy stuff with a lot of loose-over-hardpack with no such thing as a long climb and descent, or riding miles of fire roads to get to the trailhead. I spent 2. Long story short, I swapped parts over from my Spark to a Surly KM, steel is real and rides sooooo good and in less than 5 rides, I switched back had a race to my Spark an noticed my flat cornering and descending was already improving.

I've built up that Surly with high volume tires, wide bars, a dropper post and recently switched from clips to flats, and have been riding it for a year now on Florida trails. I've learned to be light on the bike, use my body as suspension, keep off the brakes to hold momentum, all that good stuff.

I ride my rigid smoother than I did on my Spark, because before I just let the suspension do most of the work. I'm young though, and I know it's only for the select sadistic few, but I do feel riding rigid has it's place and can be an EXCELLENT training tool if you want it to be, and can only make getting back on suspension that much better.

Yeah I agree, rigid riding has its place. And you know the funny thing? Somehow its usually the fastest guys you know that are riding a rigid. And its usually a singlespeed at that. I have a full quiver of bikes, and one of them is a rigid SS. IMO bicycling is about pushing your limits. It's easier to push to your limitations when you're not riding on a magic carpet. I have a Yeti SB5. I feel like I can ride like Richie Rude when I'm on that thing, even though I know i'm the furthest thing from that.

Its a hero bike. It makes up for my lack of skill. When I ride my rigid, it forces me to hone my skills. If forces me to become better. Yeah sure, when I'm in Colorado enjoying big days on the bike, my rigid is collecting dust back home.

But in the winter, for night rides on my local trails, for hooning around with my friends, for mashing some pedals, I ride rigid. StevieJB Oct 19, at This totally. I built a full rigid up last year as a winter bike, I raced full rigid XC back in the day before suspension, It was shit I sold it. People have come to think of FS as standard and required. This article has tempted me to put the rigid fork back on and scare myself.

If nothing else it will sharpen up my skills. I ended up breaking up my 26FS bike and selling it as a 29HT is nearly as fast. Suspension doesn't always make things more fun. It's only lbs lighter than the cannondale, but it's much more direct and the responsiveness to inputs and mistakes is immediate.

It makes the boring, local XC trails fun again. MTBrent Oct 19, at Should such a bike ever exist, I'll fully commit to a FS-only stable.

Well done on another thoroughly entertaining piece! I just want to hit them in the head with one. It wasn't until this article that I realized how many here are close-minded and stuck in their ways. I don't know what the real point of this article is, except to make like-minded people feel better about themselves. Interesting for a crowd who also love to hate on plus tires, which is just a barely further along the spectrum.

Such insecurity! If you don't like fully rigid, don't ride it. And rigid should not be equated to hardtail, which misses the whole point. I ride and enjoy both full suspension and fully rigid, and both have their joys.

When I'm on my rigid bike in Bellingham or Squamish, I get a lot of looks. And then, 'Wow, you rip on that! Let me spell it out for those who never gave it a fair shake: You lift up your wheels over the bumps -- both of them -- and ram them into the ground on the backsides, accelerating you.

If you're smashing into rocks and roots, you're doing it all wrong. Sure, it's more input, but its no lesser form of riding. It's more precise, more bike control, more working with the trail than just squishing over it. Slight side point but having rigid forks and riding fixie on flat pedals means that if you lose the pedals you can rest your feet on the stantions without twiddling all the adjustable gubbins they have on bouncy forks.

Full rigid Ti Global here with eXotic carbon fork. Ride it in the winter but also have a sort of singlespeed as well. Ride it in the summer for two hour thrashes and used it in a couple of XC races. Feels like cheating when you are climbing and love having it. Stay of the front brake when descending and hop over as much as you can. Would hate to be without it and it is my longest owned bike but would not have it as an only bike.

P by eddie. I had a suspension fork for a few rides a couple of years ago, but then the bike got nicked. Otherwise, all my riding has always been on a rigid fork. I did until it was nicked. Had pace carbon forks, smoothed things out just enough. Quite nice descending too, the lack of fork dive can be helpful. I miss that bike. I really like riding it, line choice is key. I reckon a more comfortable upright position suits rigid forks if you plan to do more miles, rather than a flat back racing snake position simply for general comfort.

IMO of course…. Not at all for where I ride Surrey Hills mincecore. Its a fun alternative. I have done most of my mtbin on it this last year or so. But took my HT out last week … suspension is good too.

This is mine at Wentwood enduro. I have two — a Selma like the one above and an El Mariachi with gears. Makes me quicker when I ride the normal bikes.

The point being that no one would pit a Element T. The same applies when thinking about rigid bikes. They were built to serve the same purpose but no one is going to pit a Element T.

Rocky Mountain. At least not for any length of time. Two of my former flames. And have fun. And then next day I can ride a rigid bike on the same technical descent, albeit slower. Photo: Kaz Yamamura. Riding is believing. On my local trails saying there has been a hardtail resurgence is an understatement. Less-Tech not Low-Tech. Disks, Dropper, and Slack Geo as the Carver meets the trees. Photo: Michael Cassibry. Surly is a good place to start your fork search for a combination of moderately stiff under braking, well priced and with a relatively compliant ride.

To generalize they are locations where riders measure rides in distance instead of time. Niner sells a ton of carbon frame and rigid fork combos and I know plenty of people with sublb rigid bikes happily ripping around on XC rubber.

Volker Ti frame. Photo: Vince Delaughder. Hell, go on a regular group ride. The group will wait. The group will laugh. The group will be surprised how much you ride. Most likely none of them will be convinced to try it. At the end of the ride there will be unfamiliar soreness. Frame material! There will be a sense of how quickly a rigid bike, even a slack one, responds to inputs. It is generally not a question of keeping up to riders with suspension.

Some days it takes everything just to hang on the back; on slower more technical trails however, I am consistently surprised. More Comfortable? For smaller tire widths on aggressive trails I think steel is the way to go.

Long and slack for a rigid bike stock geo. A carbon rigid fork is light and stiff but best used in conjunction with big rubber.

Photo: Ken Perras. Within the world of rigid forks there are three considerations. Weight, fore-aft stiffness under braking loads, and ride quality. Steel forks will never touch the weight savings but can be built for great stiffness under braking while providing more flex. The pace was relentless and when it came to choosing trails, no accommodation was made for my unconventional bike. I was forced to push myself not to get dropped — and to my surprise and delight, the Plus not only allowed me to keep up, but proved to be both incredibly capable and a blast to ride on the edge.

Simple fun; adaptable mindset. Old trails are new again. Easy trails are hard again. You have to be happy racing yourself. And getting beaten. It is absolutely necessary to laugh. At yourself. And to Smile. Welcome to mountain biking. Super stoked to try it out! He was awesome to work with too. Walt's works are high quality utilitarian tools in a world of bespoke bicycle artistry. I love the stuff he posts on Instagram. The explosif has inspire me to do the same with my NS eccentric.

Excited to see how it goes. I wasn't originally a fan of Plus tires but the latest generation of more aggressive rubber with reinforced sidewalls offer great support.

If you're going to ride it hard definitely think about your choice of rubber. I was originally thinking of a bontrager chupacabra, how would you compare the ride of that to something much heavier like you minion?

I know of a few guys running them elsewhere on Staches who really like them as all around rubber. Light casing Plus tires don't seem to work locally and I think are a reason a lot of people locally view Plus negatively -- because of witnessing the experiences of early adopters. Your experience may vary. I rode my steel rigid bike on the North Shore with the seat all the way up yesterday, and had a blast. Cleaned all the climbs, got bucked on a few descents, laughed just as much if not more than usual.

It's all about the attitude! I love my chinese ebay ridged carbon bike. Freakn light and pure excelleration! Its just so fast so I feel like a rocket even though I'm probably slow as hell.

My 29 pound fs bike feels like a pig in comparison. I love it! My fully rigid is my cross bike. Not the same but I do ride less nasty stuff in Whistler like some Zappa trails. In question that suspension lets a person ride rougher stuff better but I think geometry is just as pertinent.

A very basic tank. It became obvious that I needed to work on technique. The fully-rigid has proven to be a great training tool. I spend less time in the seat and hold the bars less rigidly, allowing the bike to move around beneath me. The bike is just something connected to my body. Your email address will not be published. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed. Hi there, Great read, I to advocate honing skills on less forgiving machines having come from the road.

Beat that modern bikes. I am beginning learning on an old Rigid GT. It is very fun, but I am extremely timid given that I had a huge accident when I was 15 — nearly 40 years ago.

I found the GT to be much more fun, but am I crazy? Ride whatever you feel most comfortable on. Re the hardtail, yes a fat bike will be much bigger than a conventional mountain bike but given your height, a medium is way to under-sized for you. You should be on an L or XL sized bike to get a frame height and length that you will feel comfortable with.